Does a carbon fiber trombone take less energy than a brass trombone?

daCarbo has no measurement for the trombone. It was measured on a trumpet: about 10 percent less energy for the same result. Measured in the lab (Vereecke and Kausel, International Trumpet Guild Journal, 2012). The bell of a daCarbo trombone works on the same principle: where a brass bell vibrates and loses energy, the carbon bell stays still.

Does a carbon fiber trombone sound different from a brass trombone?

Nobody hears the difference. In a blind test, listeners could not tell carbon from brass. Some players feel less feedback in their hands, though, and need some time to get used to it.

Is a carbon fiber trombone the same as a plastic trombone?

No. A plastic trombone like the pBone is made of ABS plastic and fiberglass, is made for beginners and costs US$199 from its maker. Carbon fiber is a composite: carbon fibers set in resin. The carbon fiber trombones in this article cost from €1,098 to US$7,100.

How much does a daCarbo carbon fiber trombone cost?

ChangeMaker Trombone from €2,990 (US$3,560), Tenor with F-attachment from €4,990 (US$5,860), Tenor Jazz from €5,310 (US$6,240). The price includes tax, customs duty and shipping. Nothing is added when it arrives.

Do carbon fiber trombones break?

Five times stronger than it needs to be. None has broken since 2009. The carbon outer slide cannot bend and cannot dent.

Is a carbon fiber trombone worth it? 12 trombones compared

Q: Is a carbon fiber trombone worth it?

Yes, if you play long gigs, your slide has been dented, or you are coming back after a break. Then a daCarbo is your best choice: where a brass bell vibrates and loses energy, the carbon bell stays still, and the carbon outer slide cannot bend and cannot dent. If you are a beginner, the Yamaha YSL-254CF is the better choice.

Q: Which parts of a carbon fiber trombone are carbon?

It depends on the maker. On a daCarbo, the bell and the straight tubes of the outer slide are carbon; the slide crook and the valve parts are metal. On the Yamaha YSL-254CF only the outer slide is carbon. On a Butler, the bell and the leadpipe are carbon too, and on the C10 and C12 also the tuning slide.

Q: Does a carbon fiber trombone slide dent?

The carbon outer slide cannot bend and cannot dent. A trombonist wrote eight years into owning his daCarbo: "no slide dents or dings!" The slide crook and the valve parts are metal and can dent like on any trombone.

Q: Is a carbon fiber trombone lighter than a brass trombone?

Butler puts low weight first. daCarbo does not. Carbon, not because it is lighter. Because the bell stays still, warms up in seconds and does not dent or corrode. daCarbo gives no weight for its trombones.

Q: Which carbon fiber trombones are there?

Search and you find three names: Yamaha, Butler and daCarbo. The Yamaha YSL-254CF costs €1,098 at Thomann. Butler sells the C5 and C6 from US$3,500, the C10 from US$4,300 and the C12 bass trombone for US$7,100. daCarbo makes three tenor trombones from €2,990. Yamaha uses carbon for a tough slide, Butler for low weight, daCarbo for a bell that stays still.

Third set. Nearly midnight, in a festival tent. You have been on stage since eight. Your chops are tired, and the solo in the next tune sits high.

The stage is tight. The guitarist turns around, and the neck of his guitar hits your outer slide. You keep playing and listen hard: is the slide still moving?

Anyone who plays long gigs on trombone knows both. The chops that give out before the band does. And the slide that goes to the repair shop after one knock.

Most players blame their practice or bad luck. Hardly anyone asks what the material has to do with it.

Is it your chops or your trombone?

Both. Your embouchure is something you build over years. On the trombone, two things can change: how much of your energy gets lost in the bell, and whether the slide stays straight after a knock.

No horn makes you a better player. It changes what a note costs you. And whether you need a repair tech after the gig.

Which parts of a carbon fiber trombone are carbon?

It depends on the maker. Carbon fiber here means carbon fibers set in resin, a composite. On a daCarbo, two parts are carbon: the bell and the straight tubes of the outer slide. The slide crook and the valve parts are metal.

On the Yamaha YSL-254CF only the outer slide is carbon. On a Butler, the bell and the leadpipe are carbon too.

Carbon fiber is not plastic. A plastic trombone like the pBone is made of ABS plastic and fiberglass. The pBone is made for beginners, and its maker sells it for US$199.

Why does a carbon bell lose less energy?

Where a brass bell vibrates and loses energy, the carbon bell stays still.

Every vibration in the metal takes energy. That energy comes from you, note after note, all night. The carbon bell is made so that the material itself hardly vibrates. What you put in goes into the note.

The idea comes from Andi Keller, the founder of daCarbo. He is a materials scientist, and he ran a development department that made loud machines quieter. The principle: composites damp vibrations. Andi plays trumpet and trombone. daCarbo has made carbon wind instruments since 2009.

That is why a daCarbo bell is not made to weigh as little as possible. It is made to stay still. Brass cannot do that.

How much energy does a carbon fiber trombone save?

daCarbo has no measurement for the trombone. It was measured on a trumpet: About 10 percent less energy for the same result. Measured in the lab.

The measurement was made at the Institute for Musical Acoustics (Wiener Klangstil) of the University of Music and Performing Arts Vienna. The acousticians Vereecke and Kausel compared the same trumpet once with a brass bell and once with a carbon bell. The study appeared in the International Trumpet Guild Journal in 2012. How that came about is in our article on the carbon fiber trumpet.

The bell of a daCarbo trombone works on the same principle: it stays still. Still, daCarbo gives no number for the trombone without a measurement. The goal is the same as on the trumpet: You have more left at the end of the night.

Does a carbon fiber slide dent?

No. The carbon outer slide cannot bend and cannot dent.

A trombonist on the TromboneChat forum wrote this eight years into owning his daCarbo: "no slide dents or dings!" It became his only working horn, and he sold the other four.

The slide stays straight, so the gap between outer and inner slide is very small and the slide is very airtight. That is good for the response.

For the bell and the outer slide: No dents, no corrosion, no re-lacquering. The slide crook and the valve parts are metal. Those parts can dent like on any trombone.

A carbon slide on its own is no reason to buy a daCarbo, though. Yamaha and Butler make carbon outer slides too. Butler even sells them on their own, for the trombone you already have, at US$850. What sets a daCarbo apart is the bell that stays still.

What does a carbon fiber trombone feel like to play?

Steady in the hand and efficient, with less feedback than brass.

The balance stays the same in every slide position. Your left hand can stay much more relaxed than on a standard trombone.

A trombone teacher wrote on TromboneChat that the daCarbo horns play very efficiently, but give little feedback in the hands. Because of that, he kept overshooting high notes at first. That comes from the bell staying still. So expect some time to get used to it. Give it more than one evening.

An owner in the same thread wrote that his daCarbo is one of the few horns he can "feel really good on right away even if I'm not in shape at all." That is exactly what a comeback player is looking for.

Does a carbon fiber trombone sound different from brass?

No. Nobody hears the difference. In a blind test, listeners could not tell carbon from brass.

What changes, you feel in your hands, not in the hall: the bell gives less feedback, because it does not vibrate.

Is a carbon fiber trombone lighter?

Butler puts low weight first. daCarbo does not. Carbon, not because it is lighter. Because the bell stays still, warms up in seconds and does not dent or corrode.

daCarbo gives no weight for its trombones, because weight is not what it sells. If low weight is what you need most, a Butler is the better choice.

Carbon or brass: the comparison

	Brass trombone	daCarbo trombone
Sound	The sound you know	The same. Listeners could not tell them apart in a blind test
Energy	The bell vibrates	About 10 percent less on a trumpet, measured in the lab. Not measured on a trombone
Outer slide	Can bend and dent	Cannot bend, cannot dent
Corrosion	Brass can corrode	No corrosion on the bell and the outer slide. The metal parts like on any trombone
Warming up	The metal takes time	Warm in seconds

And does it last? Five times stronger than it needs to be. None has broken since 2009.

Which carbon fiber trombones are there, and what do they cost?

Search for a carbon fiber trombone and you find three names: Yamaha, Butler and daCarbo. Each one uses carbon for a different reason.

Model	Carbon parts	Your best choice if	Price
Yamaha YSL-254CF	The straight tubes of the outer slide	You are a beginner	€1,098 at Thomann, with case and mouthpiece
Butler C5 and C6	Bell, outer slide, leadpipe	Low weight matters most to you, small bore	from US$3,500
Butler C10	Bell, tuning slide, outer slide, leadpipe	Low weight matters most to you, large bore	from US$4,300, US$5,400 with F valve
Butler C12	Bell, tuning slide, outer slide, F and Gb slides	You play bass trombone	US$7,100
daCarbo, three tenors	Bell and the straight tubes of the outer slide	You play long gigs, your slide has been dented, or you are coming back	from €2,990 (US$3,560), tax, duty and shipping included

For comparison, four well-known brass trombones that Thomann sells. On all four, the bell and the slide are metal:

Model	Bell	Outer slide	Bore
Yamaha YSL-448 GE, with F-attachment	Gold brass	Nickel silver	13.89 mm (0.547")
King 2102 Legend 2B	Brass	Nickel silver	12.22 and 12.47 mm
Conn 88H, with F-attachment	Gold brass	Gold brass	13.89 mm (0.547")
Bach 42B, with F-attachment	Brass	Brass	13.90 mm (0.547")

If one of these works well for you, there is no reason to switch.

What sets a daCarbo apart: Yamaha uses carbon for a slide that survives knocks. Butler uses it for low weight. daCarbo uses it for a bell that stays still. If endurance on a long night is your issue, that is the difference that counts.

Buying is different too. Butler gives you 15 days to try a horn, shipping comes on top, and import taxes may apply outside the USA. daCarbo gives you 30 days to send it back, and the price includes tax, customs duty and shipping. Before you order, you talk to Andi.

Who is a carbon fiber trombone for?

A daCarbo is your best choice if one of these is your problem:

You play long gigs. Big band, dance band, festivals, weddings, three sets a night. Your chops give out before the band does.
Your slide has been dented. A knock on stage, a stand that tipped over, and your horn was in the shop.
You are coming back after a break. Your endurance is not what it used to be, and you do not want to fight for every note.

Is this your problem? Then get a daCarbo.

A daCarbo is not the right choice in these cases:

You are a beginner. Your best choice is the Yamaha YSL-254CF. Yamaha says its carbon slide "is the ideal slide for anyone starting to play trombone for the first time."
Low weight matters most, or you play bass trombone. Your best choice is a Butler. daCarbo does not make a bass trombone.
Your brass trombone plays well. The slide is straight, and your gigs feel easy. Then keep it. A daCarbo will not give you a new sound either. The sound stays the same.

Which daCarbo trombone is right for you?

There are three tenor trombones. All three have a carbon bell and a carbon outer slide.

ChangeMaker Trombone, from €2,990 (US$3,560). The way in. The same carbon outer slide and the same carbon bell as the other two, put together more simply. Right for you if you want the most affordable way into a carbon trombone, jazz included.
Tenor with F-attachment, from €4,990 (US$5,860). The F valve gives you the extra notes and the alternate positions you need in a section. Bore 13.90 mm (0.547"). Right for you if you play in a section.
Tenor Jazz, from €5,310 (US$6,240). No valve. It sits steady in your hand and the slide runs fast. Bore 12.70 up to 13.37 mm (0.500" up to 0.526"). Right for you if you play without a valve.

The price includes tax, customs duty and shipping. Nothing is added when it arrives. Andi assembles and tests every instrument in Lachen.

See all trombones

Can I try a daCarbo trombone before I buy?

Yes, in two ways. First: 30 days to send it back from the day it arrives. Second: a call with Andi before you order.

The call takes 30 minutes on video. Andi hears how you play first. Then your instrument is chosen. If no daCarbo suits you, he tells you straight. The call costs nothing and commits you to nothing.

Rather try one in a shop? In the USA, Fleming Musical Instruments in Houston lists daCarbo trombones. Thomann sells daCarbo trumpets, but no daCarbo trombone. No dealer near you? Ask Andi on the call. Where it can be arranged, he arranges it.

Book a call with Andi

Back to the third set

Nearly midnight. The band counts in the last tune. Your slide moves. It stayed straight, guitar neck or not.

You are not working less hard than the others. You just lose less on the way, because the bell stays still.

You have more left at the end of the night.

Is a carbon fiber trombone worth it?